Monday, December 29, 2008

Calling All Body of Christ Believers: Pray without ceasing for our brothers in Christ in Gaza

Because if we don't, Christ will do to us what He will do to the Laodicians of Revelation 3 fame: "spew" us "out of" His "mouth".

When it comes to the present day State of Israel, my brothers and sisters, we need the Holy Spirit to show us the meaning of just who His "chosen people" are.

It is time to stop supporting "Israel" right or wrong. this is not the time to fear the wrath of Hagee and the Christian Zionists calling for the blood of our Palestinian brothers and sisters and future (that is, Muslim) brothers and sisters.

And, on the side of righteousness, nor is it the time to hate our fellow Jews for what the "snynagogue of Satan" Talmud believers are doing to our bretheren. We need to remember the great Israeli Messianic Jew, Tzi Kalisher, who is spreading the Word of God to both Jews and Palestinians there, and be more like him.

Tuesday, December 02, 2008

A Challenge to Atheists

Calling all Atheists:

There are hundreds and maybe even thousands of otherwise reasonably intelligent articles and blog posts that I have come across over the last several months that devote either part or all of the contents into claiming that God and/or Jesus Christ never existed, do not exist now, and never will exist. These posts say nothing about the Holy Spirit. Guess they figure that since Christ and God do not exist neither does the Holy Spirit. Without being absolutely sure of the nature of how God exists in some sort of trinity (and L. Ray Smith will disagree with anything about a "Holy Trinity" but there is a God as "Father" to the "Son" Christ, and there is mentioned in the Bible the Holy Spirit which descended on Christ at His baptism by John the Baptizer, so that while there is a "trinity" there is also a unity, and, besides Ray, in Genesis is recorded God saying, "Let us make man in our image"...), there is definitely an existence of something that got everything that was ever created...well, begun. And, without bringing up St. Thomas Aquinas who philosophized about God's existence in terms of "the First Causer" (actually, it was Aquinas's argument learned in my Philosophy 101 class of "First Causes" among others that--with me being if not an atheist but definitely an agnostic at the time--convinced me that the whole shebang wasn't just some sort of random event (Big Bang or other label).

So, the challenge is this: Athiests, prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that, first, there is no God, never was and never will be. Using the latest pronouncements of guys like Chris Hitchens, Jay Gould, Archarya S (consultant on Part 1 of "Zeitgeist"), and any other atheist academic won't work on me and I can easily refute anything they say or write). Second, there is no Christ, and Christ never existed. Again, using the lack of evidence of archeological artifacts from the Holy Land will get you another refutation from me...I don't buy the "the absence of evidence is the evidence of absence" reverse Rumsfeldian BS, either. Third, prove to me that Creation is utter nonsense and Evolution is the LAW. BTW, I never said that Creation was Science, so don't go to calling me some knuckle-dragging redneck inbred idiot for some bogus claim that I said it was. Understand this: CREATIONISM IS NOT SCIENCE! Ergo, "Intelligent Design" isn't science either, so you'll forgive me for not allowing you to "go there."

And, while you are at it, prove to me that Christianity has been more responsible for death and destruction than atheism, and I'll give you a gold star. I'll make it even easier for you by allowing you to include false Christianity (that is, any beliefs espoused to be "Christian" but which are anti-Christ) in your claim that Christianity has killed more people directly than atheism.

Here is why I am calling all Atheists (agnostics need not take part, and I do know the difference!) to take part in this project. One, you cannot prove God never existed, does not exist and never will exist. Two, you cannot prove Christ never existed no matter how much archeological lack of evidence you site. Three, you cannot prove that everything evolved from nothing--sorry, but this simply cannot be done no matter what the most famous scientists in the world claim.

But don't think I'm not going to be defending my own position while you are trying to debunk my position that God exists now and always has and always will, and the same goes for Christ. Also I will prove that atheism has killed more humans than any true or false form of Christianity has. [Or Judaism or Islam even...in fact it is my position that atheism has killed more humans than all three religions combined or in combination (with each other, or other religions such as Hinduism). Sorry, but animism, shaminism, and other indigenous religions don't count here. By atheism I mean any religion that claims no higher authority than man himself. And by false Christianity I mean any Christianity that is "convert or die" oriented, such as what Spain did to the natives of North and South America during Spain's rule of these areas, and other "forced" conversions.]

BONUS: Prove to me that the books of the Bible are either forgeries, were not written by those Christianity claims wrote the books, or were actually written hundreds of years after Christianity claims they were written.

Special for followers of David Icke: prove to me that Christ really is Satan!


Deborah Lagarde

Saturday, September 27, 2008

More on 2 Thessalonians 2:6-8

This is what the NRSV says:

(6) " And now you know what is now restraining (the lawless one), so that he may be revealed when his time comes. (7) For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but only until the one who now restrains it is removed. (8) And then the lawless one will revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will destroy with the breath of his mouth, annihilating him by the manifestation of his coming."

The King James (which is what the NRSV is based on) only sounds different in verse 7: "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way."

And let's review what the NIV says in 7: "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work: but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way."

Let's review the fact that the subject of a sentence in verse 7 is "mystery", and that "of lawlessness" is a prepositional phrase, and a prepositional phrase can NEVER contain the subjec. The "it" in the second half of the sentence MUST refer back to the subject "mystery". (Or, if you prefer, the "secret power" is refered to by "it" in the NIV...and with the archaic KJV, "letteth" must refer back to the "mystery.") Very possibly the major problem with interpreting or "rightly dividing" or "discerning" this passage is that most people do not "rightly divide" (grammatically) this passage! Most think that the "it" refers back to "lawlessness" or "iniquity".

Now then... not only must we discern who is restraining but WHAT is being restrained. Again, most people, and dispensationalists in particular, believe that the Holy Spirit is the restrainer and what is being restrained is either "iniquity" or "lawlessness"...because they don't realize that the subject of the sentence in verse 7 is "mystery" or "secret power". Further, most people, again because they don't realize that the subject of the sentence is "mystery" or "secret power", believe that what is being restrained is "iniquity" or "lawlessness".

So now that we know what the subject is, "mystery" or "secret power", lets "rewrite" verse 7 in all three versions again putting "mystery" or "secret power" as the subject and its reference...

NRSV: "For the mystery (of lawlessness) is already at work, but only until the one who now restrains the mystery is removed."

KJV: ""For the mystery (of iniquity) doth already work: only he who now letteth (the mystery) will let, until he be taken out of the way."

NIV: ""For the secret power (of lawlessness) is already at work: but the one who now holds the mystery back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way."

And who is "restraining" or "holding back" the mystery? In other words, who is the "he" at the end of the sentence in the KJV and the NIV? And who is "the one" in the NRSV? For this refers to who the "restrainer" and the "hold back-er" is.

What we are talking about here is WHO RESTRAINS OR HOLDS BACK THE MYSTERY. If we were talking about who holds back or restrains "lawlessness" or "iniquity" it is clear to every Christian that only the Holy Spirit representing God and Christ holds back lawlessness or iniquity. This is precisely why the rapture theory has such a toe-hold on many Christians. clearly is the Holy Spirit is removed all Christians would have to be removed because it is with Christians that the Holy Spirit resides. So I perfectly understand it when those who believe in the rapture make the claim that since the Holy Spirit is removed then all Christians MUST be taken "out of the way" or be "removed" from Earth in "the Rapture."

The thing is, it is IMPOSSIBLE for the purveyor of TRUTH, Christ, through the Holy Spirit, to "restrain" the truth, WHICH IS WHAT "MYSTERY" IS DEFINED AS--"A RELIGIOUS TRUTH DIVINELY REVEALED AND UNKNOWABLE THROUGH REASON." (Readers Digest Illustrated Encyclopedic Dictionary).

Okay, so now let's complete the sentences with everything in its proper context:

NRSV: "For the religious truth divinely revealed (of lawlessness) is already at work, but only until the one who now restrains the religious truth divinely revealed is removed."

KJV: "For the religious truth divinely revealed (of iniquity) doth already work: only he who now letteth truth be revealed will let, until he be taken out of the way."

NIV: "For the religious truth divinely revealed (of lawlessness) is already at work: but the one who now holds the religious truth divinely revealed back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way."

NOW, WHO HOLDS TRUTH BACK? WHO RESTRAINS THE TRUTH? "The man of lawlessness" (or in the KJV, the Son of Perdition".)

And now we have our final rewrite:

NRSV: "For the religious truth divinely revealed (of lawlessness) is already at work, but only until the man of lawlessness who now restrains the religious truth divinely revealed is removed."

KJV: "For the religious truth divinely revealed (of iniquity) doth already work: only he who now letteth truth be revealed will let, until the man of lawlessness be taken out of the way."

NIV: "For the religious truth divinely revealed (of lawlessness) is already at work: but the man of lawlessness who now holds the religious truth divinely revealed back will continue to do so till the man of lawlessness is taken out of the way."

So now, the Holy Spirit is not "taken out of the way" or "removed" from the Earth, and, ipso facto, neither are Christians! But what is taken out of the way or removed is the man of lawlessness or son of perdition...that is, the agency of Satan is removed from the believer.

Also, for the (verse 9), "coming of the lawless one is apparent in the workings of Satan (the lawless one works through the agency of Satan, who is permitted by God to work his "agent", lawlessness), who uses all power, signs, lying wonders, and every kind of wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved." Verse 10: "For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion, leading them to believe what is false"

And if you don't believe that God uses Satan to work his agency "lawlessness" on the Earth, then you need to read Job Chapter 2. And if you don't believe that God creates evil, then you need to read Isaiah 45:7--"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." (KJV)

And, speaking of Isaiah 45, verses 22-23 (NRSV) says "Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. By myself I have sworn, from my mouth has gone forth in righteousness a word that shall not return: 'To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear." (see also Philippians 2: 9-11)

So that even those under "strong delusion" (KJV) and all unbelievers will be saved, because God has sworn by Himself that this will be so.

Tuesday, September 09, 2008

The Myth of the "Removal" of the Holy Spirit from Earth: 2 Thessalonians 2:7

Haven't posted any Bible Myths lately, or anything else for that matter!

But the passage in 2 Thessalonians Chapter 2 verses 6, 7 and 8 (NIV) it says:

"And now you know what is holding him (the "man of lawlessness" in verse 3) back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus Christ will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming."

The King James uses the term "restrainer" to mean the one "holding him back" and (I think, I don't have it in front of me) the NRSV uses the term "retainer" or "holder"...it is commonly thought that the one who holds back or the restrainer refers to the Holy Spirit. Pre-trib rapture folks, post-trib rapture folks, post-millennialists and amillennialists pretty much agree with this.

That's not the argument here...the argument is whether or not the Holy Spirit "leaves" the Earth ("taken out of the way" here and the King James, "is removed" in the NRSV...the Concordant Literal is completely different, confusing, and I will not bring up what it says here).

Those who believe that the Holy Spirit leaves the Earth believes that event happens because it leaves the Earth when God "raptures" up the believers who have the Holy Spirit with them, thus the Holy Spirit will not be able to be found on the Earth once those with the Holy Spirit leave the Earth. But one of the major problems with Rapture Eschatology is that part and parcel with that theology is that "a remnant" will convert to believing in Christ (Jews, mostly) during the time when the Holy Spirit is no longer on the Earth. Now, isn't it true that when one truly believes Christ is his Savior, that Christ died for his sins, that the Holy Spirit is given to the new believer? Thus, one cannot say that once the raptured believers are taken off the Earth, the Holy Spirit goes with them, and will not return until the "lawless one" is defeated by Christ. In fact one of the main things that keeps believers still believing is that they have the Holy Spirit. And in fact the Holy Spirit will ALWAYS remain in the believer if one truly is a believer.

But what if one is a "believer" of convenience, one on which the Word of God has fallen, and then it whithers as if surrounded by thorns or falls on rock or the soil isn't deep enough (see Matthew 13)? What if the believing is not true believing? What if one stops believing, then rebels against God? There are examples of this happening in the Book of Acts, Paul's Epistles and other places. So, perhaps the Holy Spirit "leaves" those particular individuals, but never "leaves" the Earth completely.

The wording is important: Notice the prepositional phrase "of lawlessness" in verse 7; the subject is "secret power", and in verse 7, who does "he" refer to? So let's read this without the prepositional phrase:

"For the secret power is already at work; but the one who now holds back the secret power (it) will continue to do so until the man of lawlessness (he) is taken out of the way."

Or, does "he" refer to the one who holds "it" back?

Stay tuned, and I will discuss this further in the next day or so.

Deborah Lagarde

Friday, July 25, 2008

So Many Anti-Christs, So Little Time...

One would think that it would be easy to find out who or what Anti-Christ is, because of the nature of the word: anti + Christ. "Anti" means "against". For instance, someone who is "anti-war" is "against war." Someone who is "anti-defamation" is against slander or bad mouthing someone or some group. "Anti-Semitic" means against Semites. IT DOES NOT MEAN AGAINST JEWS! OKAY??? Semites include Jews and Arabs. It includes most of the Middle East, in fact (but not Iranians, because Persians are related to Indo-Aryans and are thus, Biblically, of Japheth). So that, by definition, "Anti-Christ" means "against Christ." That is so obvious that I have to wonder why Christians have such a hard time figuring out who or what is Anti-Christ.

But I have a theory born of discernment and the Holy Spirit.

The problem is that Christians are looking for "THE" Anti-Christ. It is usually expressed as "THE Anti-Christ will, during the Seven Year Great Tribulation, first make peace with Israel (some say "the Jews") to make a false peace, but then will break the peace, sit in the Temple in Jerusalem (which would be rebuilt on the site of the present Islamic Dome of the Rock, one of Islam's holiest sites), proclaim himself God, and proceed to force the 'Mark of the Beast' and '666' and all sorts of calamity on the world, including slaughtering 2/3 of the world's Jews (while 1/3 convert to Christianity) and wind up being defeated at the Battle of Armeggedon by the "Second Coming" of Christ along with His angels." I have heard slight variations on this theme for years. Other than citing Daniel 9, Zechariah 12, Revelation 13 and a few other places in the Bible, I have never heard an explanation form anyone that most assuredly rests on the Word of God. For one thing, only ONE BOOK of the Bible even mentions the word "anti-Christ", 1 John. (One would think that the use of the term "Anti-Christ" by Christians as much as we do would mean the word is mentioned in at least several other "end-times prophecies", but no. This is almost as much bad discernment as use of the word "rapture", the context in which it is meant HAVING NO PLACE IN THE BIBLE, PERIOD! And there is NO ONE SINGLE ANTI-CHRIST, EITHER!

Thus: THE "Anti-Christ" is not the Pope of Rome (Hagee and others). It is not King Juan Carlos of Spain ("Newswatch Magazine's" David J. Smith's routine). It is not George W. Bush (some leftist antiwar bloggers, probably in jest). It is not Prince Charles of Britain (various other Christian Identity sites). It is not Saddam Hussein (he's dead). It is not Osama bin Laden (he is also dead, according to FOX News of December, 2001, and the late Benazir Bhutto, a You Tube video made right before her assasination attests). It is not John Hagee (some radical anti-Christian Zionists), however Hagee is certainly a false prophet. Nor is it Pat Robertson, James Dobson, Hal Lindsay, or any other leader of the Christian Right. It is also not any other world leader, politically, economically, socially, or in any other elite position. It is not a member of the so-called "Illuminati" (Rothschild, Rockefeller, et. al.) There is NO ONE SINGLE "THE" Anti-Christ!

Here is what 1 John 2:21-23 says the Anti-Christ is:

"(21)I write not to you seeing that you are not acquainted with the truth, but that you are acquainted with it, and that no lie at all is truth. (22) Who is the liar, if not he who is denying, saying that 'Jesus is not the Christ'? This one is the antichrist, who is disowning the Father and the Son. (23) Everyone who is disowning the Son, neither has the Father. He who is avowing the Son has the Father also." (Concordant Literal New Testament; I used this version because this is the only Bible version that I have found that properly translates the ancient Greek, using the imperfect aorist tense the original New Testament Aramaic/Greek Scriptures were written in. Most versions use the simple (preterite) past or past participle/progressive past tenses, which are less accurate. Using this tense also shows that doing the Word of God is ongoing, and didn't end in the 1st Century AD.)

Thus, EVERYONE who disowns Jesus as the Christ, or Christ, is anti-Christ. Also, every writing that disowns Christ is anti-Christ. and every so-called Holy Book that disowns Jesus as the Christ (or the Messiah or that Christ is the Son of God) is anti-Christ.

Thus, the Koran, which calls Christ a prophet only, but not the Son of God and the Christ is anti-Christ. While the Torah does not specifically state that Christ is the Son of God, it is implied in its prophecies and is used by Messianic Jews to defend Jesus, the Emmanuel (God with us) (in Hebrew Jesus is "Yehoshua" or Joshua, "Jesus" is a Greek translation), as the Christ/Messiah, thus the Torah and Jews who practice the Torah EXCLUSIVELY as the Word of God in their faith are not necessarily anti-Christ. The problem is most Jews do not consider the Torah exclusively as "the law" and spiritual foundation of their faith. In fact it is true today that the Talmud is now the most important legal and spiritual foundation for Judaism. The Talmud is, by the admission of its reviewers, the written collection of works taken from oral spiritual and legal Pharisee/Sadducee traditions.

The Talmud says: (paraphrased) Christ is in hell, wallowing in boiling hot excrement (Gittin 56b-57a). And the Book of Sanhedrin says, He was a bastard, son of adulterous Mary (Sanhedrin 106b). He was hung on the eve of Passover because He was a sorcerer and apostate (Sanhedrin 43a). He was a fool who fell down and worshipped a brick (Sanhedrine 67a). The Talmud is online now at the "see and hear" website, and you can verify this for yourself. Thus, the Talmud, the "law" and "spirit" for most religious Jews, is DEFINITELY anti-Christ!


In a future post, I hope I can clear up, the Lord willing, other misconceptions about "666" and other end-times concerns.

Deborah Lagarde

Wednesday, June 25, 2008

What "Voice of the Martyrs" Won't Tell You...So I Guess I Have To!

As expected from a news source that calls itself Christian and is advertised on World Net Daily, among other places, the magazine "Voice of the Martyrs" DOES NOT report on what Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox Jews inside Israel, and especially it seems Yeshiva Students, Rabbis, and settlers in the West Bank--especially the new Neo-Nazi kind that Israeli papers like Haaretz report on--are doing to Arab and Palestinian--and NOW MESSIANIC JEWS!!!--Christians. This non-reporting is due, I suppose, to the false notion arising from a misreading of Genesis 12:3--most think it says something like God will bless those who bless Israel and will curse those who curse Israel. As reported in my Israel series, Genesis 12:3 says no such thing. However, as with so many other Christian publications, this one refuses (so far as I know) to report on what some in Israel are doing to Christians, and now are doing to Messianic Jews there.

So I guess I'm gonna have to do their job. I remind the reader that this blog is not in the business of simply denouncing Israel or Zionism just for the heck of it. I do it for a reason, and that reason is to uphold the name and mission of Jesus Christ, as simple as that, because the Babylonian Talmud does such evil as to claim that the Son of God is boiling in hell for eternity in His own excrement.

And, anyway, as far as I am concerned, Israel is cursing itself. They don't need me to do it!

So, if you really want to know how Christians and Messianic Jews are suffering for their faith in Israel and the Palestinian Occupied Territories, follow these links, and I'll leave it up to "Voice of the Martyrs" to cover persecution of Christians in Islamic and Communist countries as they feel a lot more comfortable doing that.


1. Israeli Christians worship under armed guard

2. Israeli theology students fire rocket at Palestinians

3. The Second Crucifixion of Jesus

4. Israel is deporting Jerusalem Christians

5. Hundreds of New Testaments torched in Israel

6. First they burnt the books...then they burnt those who wrote them.

7. Orthodox Jewish youths burn New Testaments in Or Yehuda

8. Jewish settlers at checkpoint threaten to kill Palestinian Christian aid workers as they "killed Jesus"

9. Christians in Jerusalem want Jews to stop spitting on them

10. Rabbis Angry Even at Silent Christians

Deborah Lagarde

Sunday, June 01, 2008

Legal Notice

To the person who wrote in response to my post "Symbolically True or Literally True", the following:

On May 28, 2008,

"you are a very naughty person because i am jewish and from lithuanian parentage and now you tell me i am not jewish but

a khazar

1.well if you have never met me and done a dna test on my blood line how can you make that claim

2.secondly if any person converts to judaism then he is a jew -he has chosen and becomes the chosen

3.jesus was a palestinian when it was called palestine by the romans
he is most definitely not related to modern day palestinians-that was yasser arafats idea to call arabs living in israel

palestinians

4.practice what you preach -do not slander"

and wrote this on May 31, 2008,

"rest your case -what rubbish -go to a site on lithuania jewish history-thousands of jews were murdered by lithuanian

christians-they died for their religous beliefs and you have the audacity to dismiss them as fake jews or "khazars"-this all

before 1948-before the state of israel was formed-that persecuetion led to militant zionism and the formation of a jewish

army to protect jews.the european church states have a history of attacking jews only now you are hoping that muslims

will do your dirty work for you",

After careful consideration, the holder of this blog, the undersigned, has foregone all claims to the above quoted person (posted in his or her original text without changes, herewith called "anonymous", as being "Khazar"; will be called "anonymous" until such time as this person identifies himself or herself; and withdraws all claims that this person "anonymous" is anything but Jewish, in religion and ethnicity.

Furthermore, the owner of this blog, the undersigned, from henceforth will not allow any more individuals to post anonymously. This blogger will no longer post comments from individuals under the rubric "anonymous." This includes the author of the above quotes.

Signed: Deborah Lagarde

Wednesday, April 30, 2008

A Look at Ezekiel 38 and 39

This was previously posted on my old (deleted) "Render Unto Christ" blog. I am posting it again because it is relevant to end-times prophesy, because what I wrote I still believe is well Spiritually discerned, and because I haven't posted in three months!


Pre-tribber John Hagee seems to think this prophecy, the "God-Magog War", is a key event in the set of end-times prophecies, and one he expounded on in such a way as to glaring expose his errors. As stated previously, he gets Gog's allies wrong--he claims Ethiopia is Saudi Arabia and the Arab countries south and east of Israel, and he gets Tarshish and his "young lions" wrong; Tarshish is NOT Britain and the "young lions" are not its former colonies America, Canada, Australia and New Zealand (Hagee, of course, being the Bushian he is, only mentioned America by name). Tarshish is actually a port city on the Mediterranean in Palestine. Another serious error--and all he'd have to do is read Revelation 20 to figure this one out--is that he claims the Gog-Magog War occurs during the Great Tribulation, probably as the battle of Armegeddon on the Plain of Meggido in Israel. Revelation 20, however, puts this war AFTER the millennial reign of Christ on Earth! Now, unless Hagee is a "post millennial rapture-ist" in disguise, he is mixing up his time periods. In the KJV it says:

"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison (the bottomless pit--DL)...And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea...(Mr. Hagee--there is even a REFERENCE to Ezekiel 38 here!!! Can't you see that?! Maybe not, since you aren't using a KJV)...And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city (Jerusalem--DL): and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them (ANOTHER REFERENCE to Ezekiel 38!) [Revelation 20:7-9]

ARE YOU BLIND, MR. HAGEE?

Now lets see what Mr. Hagee--who, during his televised sermon series called "Prophecy for the 21st Century" filmed at his Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, Texas, discusses this for nearly a half-hour with his congregation, even having them read with him out of their Bibles--claims to back up his assertion. I am not going to get into the business about who Ethiopia is (as far as I'm concerned, he is talking about the lands right below Egypt, which include Sudan or as it was know then, Nubia), because while I think Hagee is in error, it is not a very serious error compared to the error of timing. Hagee read:

"And the word of the Lord came unto me (Ezekiel--DL), saying, Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him, and say, Thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal: and I will turn thee back, and put hooks into they jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armor, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords: Persia, Ehtiopia, and Libya (NRSV-Put) with them; all of them with shield and helmet: Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee." [Ezekiel 38:1-6]

Hagee then, I believe, skipped a few verses, then began reading again (as his congregation read along with him):

"Thus saith the Lord God; It shall come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into they mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought: and thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages (Israel--DL); I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates, to take a spoil, and to take a prey (the reference here mean to enslave them); to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land. Sheba and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, art thou come to take spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take great spoil? Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, thus saith the Lord God; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou now know it? and thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them rding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army: and thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes." [Ezekiel 38: 10-16]

It could be that Hagee did not leave out verse 8, which is a very key verse...I do not have the tape Hagee is selling with this message, and I didn't record it with my VCR, and thus my memory is not that keen on this. The thing is, while I was watching this show (on Daystar Network), I missed verse 8, or at least the implication of it, which through my own study and guidance by the Holy Spirit (which I prayed for), I now understand. Ezekiel 38:8 says:

"After many days thou (Gog-Magog--DL) shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is BROUGHT BACK FROM THE SWORD (emphasis mine), and is GATHERED OUT OF MANY PEOPLE (emphasis mine), against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them."

BROUGHT BACK FROM THE SWORD means brought back from war, which in this case might mean brought back from Armeggedon (Rev. 16:14-21), the final battle of the Great Tribulation when God defeats the beast and the false prophet, saves remnant Israel and (perhaps--I need to study this more) "raptures" the faithful (the "remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony (gospel) of Jesus Christ" Rev. 12:17--the remnant here being Christians, which are grafted onto remnant Israel--you don't have to be a "Branch Davidian" to see this!). Now, if what Hagee says is true, then "brought back from the sword" means that Israel was involved in a war prior to the final battle Armeggedon, but nothing such is mentioned in the Bible...but it is mentioned in Tim LeHaye's "Left Behind" book. (I didn't read the book and don't plan to. But I did see the movie.) In the book (and movie), Israel is attacked right at the beginning by jets from Russian-sponsored Arab nations, but all the jets are blown apart by God. Right after that, the "rapture" happens in the book. The thing is, it isn't Biblical.

There are many places in the prophecies, the epistles, the gospels, and Revelation that use the phrase "gathered out of many peoples", but while the Bible never uses the word "rapture", it does use the word "gathering" or "gathered" or "gathered out of".

Since I wrote this originally, Hagee has put out his "Jerusalem Countdown" book where he explains this more fully, but it doesn't matter. His timeline is still wrong.

What's really wrong, of course, is that this preacher is calling for annihilation of all Islam, and any Christians and Jews who just happen to be in the way. I wonder if Hillary "obliterate Iran" Clinton will try seeking his endorsement? But she'd be wasting her time, since apparently Hagee only endorses Republicans.

Deborah Lagarde

Friday, February 29, 2008

My daughter's recommendation for all terrorists...and that means you, Christian Zionists!

This morning my daughter of 15 that I homeschool had this recommendation for all terrorists: go on the "Dr. Phil" Show and "talk" about why you have killed millions of people. "Explain" yourself to Dr. Phil, so he can give you "positive regard," to use the form of therapy devised by Dr. Carl Rogers, Psychotherapist.

Now, let me pass the same advice onto all Christian Zionists from John Hagee down to the lowliest "tither" at his Cornerstone Church and other chumps...er, contributers. Get thyself to Dr. Phil! Or you other friendly neighborhood counselor (hey, I don't have a license but I am certified...who knows? You might be certifiable!) or therapist. Doesn't have to be a Christian therapist, either. But you need to sit down (or lie on the couch, Freudian style) and talk to someone. Someone needs to "feel your pain."

Now, from one Christian to another, let me tell you why I think you need help. Now, ordinarily I would suggest prayer, a talk with the Jesus in your heart. However, it is apparent to me that you don't actually believe in Christ, because if you did you would suffer in your heart with the Palestinian people who are being "genocided" by the Zionists in Israel. AND THEY ADMIT IT!

Now, why do I keep harping on the plight of the Palestinians? For one thing, Jesus WAS A PALESTINIAN as well as ethnically and religiously Jewish, a son of David, a son of Judah! And, are you ready for this? The Zionists who are running Israel for the Rothschild agenda (you know, the anti-Christ?) ARE NOT JEWS BUT KHAZARS! Mike Rivero, the anti-Zionist who runs that anti-Zionist website What Really Happened, a "black" or "Spanish" or "Sephardic" Jew, is more Jewish than Ehud Olmert! Ashkenazi Jews are not Jews at all because while they are religious Jews they are not ethnic Jews (as I explained in my "Israel" series, the Khazars in Khazaria were converts to Judaism via the Babylonian Talmud, the same Babylonian Talmud that has Christ boiling in his own excrement in hell for eternity. Thus, the Ashkenazi Jews are not ethnic Jews and thus have NO RIGHT to force Palestinians out of their homeland.)

But I know how hard it must be to get on Dr. Phil...I've never tried, but I can imagine it must be hard. So here's what I'll do instead. I'll post some links, because you might be curious as to why I harp on people you consider animals. Here is the first link: which shows the Shoah against the Arabs in Gaza. Don't know what a Shoah is? What's the matter, John Hagee didn't tell you on his TV show? Well, then, I'll let an Israeli defense official tell you here. And then there is this link, to a blog created by an Israeli journalist, here.

In any case, I don't expect to change your hearts. Only Christ can do that. Still, it could be you are heartless toward the Palestinian people and its anywhere from 2-10 percent Christians because, believing a lie (that the 1948
State of Israel is God's Israel) and loving not the truth about Israel (the truth being that God's Israel is spiritual Israel, that is, US CHRISTIANS!--The Book of Hebrews), that God has sent you strong delusion (2 Thessalonians 2:8-11).

Deborah Lagarde

Tuesday, January 29, 2008

More on Bible "Myths": Literally True OR Symbolically True

This has been a busy month: relatives to take care of, son at home, new computer which needed to go back for repairs...and now works great!...health issues, memorial services for two friends who died young (one was a year younger than me and one was about ten years younger than me, and who left behind six children aged 22 to 6!)...

But I won't apologize if I have not been keeping up with Bible issues. Instead of doing what most bloggers do--blog incessantly even if they have little to say (the neocons, for instance, who read each others blogs and link to all of them, so that readers of these blogs are constantly clicking on the same links and reading the same stuff over and over again! And then for some relief from this they go over to "Little Green Footballs" to laugh at the ridiculous hateful commentary spewed out by folks who must look like morons to sane people), just so long as they blog at least once a day--I have made it a point to post blog posts only when The Spirit leads me. Which leads to another Bible Myth.

I call this a "myth" because somehow I grew up believing that either everything in the Bible was literally true ("yes, dear, God made the world in six 24-hour days, and on the 7th day He rested", for instance) or symbolically true but not literally true ("no, dear, God doesn't need a fixed period of 24 hours...and who knew what a day was before He created the Sun, Moon, and Stars to guide the realm of 'day'? So all that "six days" stuff is symbolic...besides, God never 'rests'.). From what I have heard preached or discussed by those who claim to know what's in the Bible, most Christians either believe the Bible is literally true but uses symbolism to explain it's literal truth OR believe the Bible is strictly symbolic and there is no literal truth to it...well, except for the historical books in the Old Testament and the Book of Acts in the New Testament (which most Christians of both stripes agree must be literally true, especially since archaeological evidence proves their truth).

What got me started on this was learning that one of the more Biblically discerning individuals on the Internet, L. Ray Smith of Bible-Truths.com, is giving a lecture series regarding Creation (Genesis) this coming September. I will not be able to attend; however, his audio files will be posted from that conference. Smith takes the line that other than the historical books such as Chronicles, Kings, Acts, Esther and Ruth, everything in the Bible is basically a parable. Smith might believe that there is no literal "six-day creation." It was Smith, for instance, who turned me on to the impossibility of "Hell for eternity" (yet, I feel that I went further than he did because I explained that, due to the fact that God exists outside of time precisely because it was He who created time, BUT simultaneously exists in time, the notion of "eternity" as a time frame has no meaning for God, so then why would He even specify it as a time frame? It is for reasons such as this--to prove punishment CANNOT be "eternal" timewise of "infinity" "number"-wise--that God gave us mathematics [among other reasons, of course!]). But this is not a plea for my understanding "is better than" Smith's. In fact, while Smith gives a fairly good debunking of "the rapture," a local "substitute" preacher, who also is the caretaker of the site of the local "camp meeting" nearby, Virgil Gage, pointed me to the ultimate reasons there will not be any "pre-trib" or "post-trib" or "mid-trib" "rapture" of the Church: John 17:15 and 20, which Christ Himself says there will not be any "removal" of any believers from the Earth comparable to what is claimed by those who preach the rapture theory. In fact, Gage understands too that God has His own time frame which is barely discernible to us humans.

In fact, to even suggest that God either exists in the here and now only or in "timelessness" makes no sense. He exists in both realms and in all realms. How many times is it written in the Bible, "God is the same today, yesterday, and tomorrow"? Or that "God has no beginning and no end," Or that God "was, is, and will be" and "knows the end from the beginning" and other such phrases from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22: 21.

God exists in time (yes, the present-day) and in timelessness simultaneously. Someone on the Bible-Truths forums even suggested that all time periods are fluid, that the 1500s (for instance) co-exist with the 2000s! (The thing is, I have no way to prove this or disprove this, and no way to verify this regardless. But it is interesting, especially for folks like me who think theoretical mathematics is an interesting topic.)

That's because God exists in all things, because God exists in all atoms and molecules. that is, everything is made up of "God". Spirit, that is, as well as matter organic and inorganic, which is why "God" created and creates all things ("Creates"? Here is another good idea from Smith: get yourself a "Concordant Literal New Testament" put out by the Concordant company. In fact, the New Testament translated from the Ancient Greek is in many ways mis-translated because the wrong tense is used. The Greek language also uses the "aorist" tense, which is past, present, and future at the same time, and where properly translated many things mentioned in the Bible are "coming" as well as "has come" or "have come" or "will come," that is, existing in all three time frames simultaneously. For example: with the Concordant Literal Old Testament (available book by book only...the entire Old Testament Concordant Literal Old Testament doesn't seem to be available), where it says "Let us make man in our own image," in Genesis in the King James, it says "Let us be making man in our own image," in the Concordant Literal. So that, in the King James it seems as if God (as "us) made man and that's it, whereas in the Concordant Literal it seems as if God (as "us") is making man continuously. If this "aorist" tense translation is more accurate, then this must prove that God exists in all time frames simultaneously, including outside of time. Thus, if "literal" truth relies on historical time frames while "symbolic" truth relies on no time frames (or timelessness), that God exists in both simultaneously most show that both literal truth in all things in the Bible AND symbolic truth in all things in the Bible MUST BOTH BE TRUE!

And, believe me, without the Holy Spirit guiding me in writing this, I never would have come up with such a conclusion!

Deborah Lagarde